What if your expectations helped you build your business instead of constantly making you feel behind? Elana and Erin continue their fall-cocktail conversation from last week with a closer look at the difference between challenging yourself and trying to prove you deserve to be here.
You’ll hear a way to pursue your Vision that respects your capacity, keeps your clients in view, and doesn’t require being mean to yourself.
But fair warning. The conversation gets a little spicy as they talk about the trend of coaches making clients supporting characters in their business and money goals.
If you run a business and keep moving the finish line on yourself, this episode is for you. Learn how to create expectations that help you care for your work and yourself, rather than sacrificing one for the other.
Connect with us:
Elana McKernan is a Master Certified Life and Creativity Coach who specializes in helping perfectionists create more by treating themselves better. Find her on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/elanamckernan/ and book a consultation at https://www.coachingwithelana.com/book-a-consult.
Erin Aquin is a Master Certified Life Coach and co-author of the #1 bestseller "Superabound: Live the Life the Universe is Dreaming For You." Read the book at https://besuperabound.com/book and book a consultation at https://besuperabound.com/consultation.
Watch here
Listen here:
Um that was a few episodes back many episodes ago. Um so I tend to think of I think what you're describing I tend to think of it as resistance which I am like really into slowing down and listening to like I think there is always wisdom and resistance. For me personally, I think there can be I mean whether there's wisdom or not, my fear I'm not going to relate to it as like ew this is a problem. But I do I think I have spent a lot of my life interpreting fear as like a sign that I'm doing something wrong. Mhm. So shifting to a relationship to fear that is a little bit less like putting fear on a pedestal has been really helpful for me. Yes. Um and fear doesn't always or even often for me mean I'm on like the wrong track or but it's the res the resistance in me. If I feel like a I don't like that for me. I'm always like I have to slow down and listen to that because there's some wisdom in here that I need to like listen to. And sometimes the fear I do that is what I need in order to take care of it as well. But sometimes it is like I do have to sort of be like okay like fear is in the car. It's not going to be at the wheel. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean what a beautiful I I describe it like that too. Sometimes I like have a I have a really vivid memory of like being on a plane with my kids and my youngest at the time was maybe three. He was like flipping out like we were just like getting on the plane and he just like had a kind of a panic reaction about like all of it. And I'm like that's how I think of fear. I kind of feel like I try I not always successful at this, but I do kind of visualize that moment with him where I was just like this is the part part of me. He literally was part of me. So I guess it's not that farfetched. I'm like this is freaking out having a terrible time. It's not like we're going to cancel the flight. We're not getting off the plane right now. But like I'm totally here with you. Yeah. It's like parenting the fear almost. Parenting our fear that I love that. Mhm. Cuz you're like taking care of it, but when you're parenting, you're not you're not always you're not letting it lead. You are. And at time sometimes you might make the decision to organize yourselves around the fear if it's really intense and like that's what feels loving and kind in in the moment but like that's not the end of the conversation. Then you're like taking care of it and then you're like okay how can we move forward? Yeah. Because ooh okay so this idea in that instance we were not getting off the plane. So we were parenting the fear. you were being there for the fear. But then there's other moments where it's like, doesn't matter if you go down the water slide. Doesn't matter if you get on the bouncy castle, right? Doesn't affect me at all. You do what you want. I don't need to I don't need to push that. And I'm just like that. I feel like it's like sometimes going through the fear part is very essential. And sometimes it's like if you feel scared about this, it's not going to have a detrimental effect to not do it at this time. Yeah. And like you're ready. Mhm. And I think that's actually really like that tracks strategically because like if you are forcing yourself to do the scary thing every time all the time, you're going to burn out. Like you're going to flame out. Yeah. It's like some moral thing. You're like, I'm not a good coach if I don't feel the fear and do it anyway. Right. Yeah. Like you have to we don't have I I actually have a dear coach that I love adore but she had a thing where she like wasn't believing that energy was like you know had some limits or like she was like challenging that as a thought and I'm like actually I find it helpful to think like maybe I do have limited capacity and then I get to decide what is most important for me to apply it to and I don't have to like fight my nature. Yes. And like I think the fear thing is similar. Like there are some things where the desire is so strong or the mission is so strong or my values are telling me this is important to you that like I will absolutely feel the fear and do it anyway and sometimes I'll feel the fear and I will decide not to do it because it's just not that important and it's not essential. Yeah. I mean the the energy thing you just said is really cool too because there is a way in which people can say oh my energy is really limited and they use that as a limiting factor but then what you just said it's like treating your energy and your capacity is very sacred and saying this isn't just something because it's limitless like I can just pour it all over everything and everything matters. It's saying this is actually an important gift of my energy that I'm giving you. Mhm. I also don't believe it's unlimited because it was unlimited we'd live forever, [laughter] right? Yeah. I think that now that like at the very beginning I was and even when I texted you I posed the question like are there any times where expectations are actually helpful and at the time I was like I don't know I don't think so cuz I was coming from the perspective of beating myself up with my expectations but where the conversation has landed now I think that yes they can be helpful and like actually vital if it's like appro like if they're approached from a place of love and like I don't know what the what term I would use but like love and this is everything I want to say is like sounding very cheesy but I'm just going to say it [laughter] like holding your highest like good or potential in like the forefront rather than um like cracking the whip to like make you run towards something faster that like you're not necessarily it's like not your best interest at heart or maybe it is in a way but like there's something there. I'm not sure exactly what it is. I like that. Like I think you know and I think for coaches too we probably have some read on our tendencies and traits. We know like what our buttons are, what our strengths are, what our weaknesses are. For me the the most rage baiting thing that anyone can do is disrespect me or someone I love. Mhm. I am like a pretty calm person until somebody disrespects me and then the daggers come out and snakes come out and [laughter] Erin's pointing to her amazing earrings which you should check out on the YouTube channel. Um but like I but like because I know that I'm because I'm learning that about myself. It's like whenever I'm really pissed off about something, it always comes back to like feeling disrespected. And I feel like that's my that's how I know if expectations are supportive or not. Like expectations I have of myself. The harsh ones disrespect me. They disrespect what I'm building. They disrespect my vision. and they disrespect like my needs as a human, but the supportive ones kind of nudge me a little further. Mhm.
Like I have the expectation that if I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it. But I might not do it in the hour that I put it on my calendar. might not do it the week I expected to. Um, this was like I grappled with this right like lately actually because I got really into like creating all my little cards and getting that project going, which it is now. But I was there was a moment where I was like, you're supposed to finish your book next. Your next book is supposed to come out. That's the expectation. The our contract was I'm like my contract with who? I literally work with myself. I'm planning to self-publish the next one. There's no editor going to like [laughter] figure book deal here. Yeah. I mean, hey, I would do it if there was that expectation. I totally would that any publishers that want to talk to me, [laughter] fine. But I'm like, I'm having more fun putting my hands on tactile things and creating something that's totally new and out of my comfort zone. and I dropped it. And I was like, the end of that project went so quickly when I wasn't like, "Oh, today's a writing day. I can't possibly do a card cuz I got to write." Like just like all of this is for fun. What am I am I expecting to like sell a million copies of my next book and my future self is like, "Come on, this is the one." [laughter] Like, no. That'd be nice, but no. like that's not that's not the deal. So that's like what I I loved this question today because that's sort of what I've been playing with in my own coaching and self coaching. It's like what what feels not just joyful and fun but like what also feels like deeply respectful of and worthy of like my time. That's such a beautiful framing, right? Yeah. very different from like how can I develop selfworth which was where I was five years ago. It's like how can I just like feel worthy of my life? I'm such an idiot. It's like [laughter] years later I'm just like how is my life worthy of my energy and my time? Like
I do I love this I'm like lucky you guys that you have me as your mom. True. Very true. I don't know. Someday they're going to be like, "She was so crazy and arrogant." No way. She was a sociopath. She watched all these things. She got She was cackling at fake people dying and talking to her children about murder. [laughter] And we have the receipts. Murder logic puzzles. Getting drunk on a podcast. What a heathen. Okay. P.S. I do feel a little drunk today. I love you. We've got to do I'm good. Yeah. I actually don't feel that tipsy, but wine does it for me. We have to do another wine one at some point. I don't know if it's the sun or it's just like how much brandy did I pour in it? [laughter] Unmeasured amount. Okay, but I want to talk a little bit more about this idea of like expectations set from a place of respect because I think that's such an important distinction. Um, and I'd never really thought of it in that way. Like some expectations are like almost I think most expectations are set from a place of like prove yourself. Like prove that you're worthwhile. Prove that you have a right to be here. Prove to me that we made the right decision. Like there's a lot of a lot of like Yeah. like justify your existence type of expectations. And that is like the antithesis of expectations that come from a place of like respecting you. And some of them can be like it's not necessarily what the expectation looks like from the outside. I think you can absolutely expect something of yourself from a place of respect that really like challenges you and invites you to step into like a space of discomfort and like confront some fear. But that's that would feel very very different than something set from that other energy. It's interesting because I'm almost like I wonder if that prove it to me energy is like a fear of the respect that will be lost if it doesn't turn out. Yeah. Like when I've set expectations for myself or for other pe for other well let's talk about other people other people. I'm just like, yeah, it's like, don't make me find out I was wrong because then then I won't trust myself. And if I don't trust myself, there is no respect in my the way it like lines up in my mind. I'm just like if I I don't I guess there are people I could I'm just trying to think like can you trust somebody if you don't respect them? I guess somebody could be consistent and you could just choose to trust them, but you didn't like respect them their life, but you like think they have an enough integrity in doing what they say they're going to do that I trust based on the information I have. Mhm. But I'm like, but if they were disrespectful to something important, like I don't know. I think there's some there's something about that and I I think that's probably why like going back to your your exploration of like the expectations we put on ourselves. I think it maybe comes down to like inner trust. It's like if I put these rigid rules and expectations on myself and then I live up to them, then I'm proving something to me. Mhm. Which is unfortunate. I mean I I completely understand why that happens and I did that for a long time and it is unfortunate cuz it's like when you set expectations from that place you will never meet them generally because they're so they don't take any of your context into account. So they're very punishing and they're so unrealistic. They're like impossible to achieve. And I've seen it happen so many times in the people that I coach, like even if they do achieve them, then it's like on to the next. Almost. There's no acknowledgement. Yeah. It's like, well, okay, I I decided I was going to be the coach that made a million dollars in my first year. Now I did that. Well, now I have to make 10 million in my second year. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's no satis there's no satisfying the
impulse that comes from until you examine it and like yeah cuz it's a hunger for something that's very fundamental like acceptance from ourselves. It's just a misunderstanding of like where that comes from. And again this is all happening mostly unconsciously I think. So it's not like like I feel like I don't this is a little risky but like I'm not claiming to know one of our teachers we saw her set increasingly ambitious goals and pursue them so doggedly and like I don't know what was happening in her brain. Um, it's totally possible she was just like this is a new adventure and there was like none of this stuff stuff tied up in it, but like something was going on there such that her business like completely deteriorated and like she kind of tore apart her business in pursuit of one like super super ambitious goal. So, I think that I guess I'll just like take I'll appropriate that as an example of what it can look like if you do pursue these like external more like punishing goals without uh maybe setting them from the more like respectful place or without like working on the relationship to yourself beforehand or something. I don't know. Yeah, I mean that is such a good example because I think at some point the goal became more about proving than a vision that was supposed to support a lot of people. M I think the second that the people who were going to be helped left that goal statement was never like it was going to be a disaster. [clears throat] Mhm. Um because as we probably have all felt within ourselves like nobody wants to be the the cog in somebody else's marketing wheel or in their success story like if especially for like for coaches for client and I I say that I say this all the time to people it's like don't make your clients your whole marketing plan because nobody wants to be just like the side character in your story to making x number of dollars, right? Like the show, it just feels so Yeah. It just it's like are you here just to make a bunch of money [clears throat] to be able to say that you did it or that it's possible? It's like I guess that could be somebody's vision, but if the way that you do that doesn't take into consideration and care for everyone whose money would be potentially part of that. It just doesn't feel very like human and it's not it's not a good sales pitch. Like I just think [laughter] I actually think it was a bad marketing move. Yeah. as much as I have respect for the early stage of that business. Mhm. Um I was just like this is a bad marketing move because everybody just feels like part of your plan. Yeah. Cuz I think the marketing I'm getting a little a little sidetracked here, but I kind of I think it's good. Let's be spicy. I think the reason that didn't work is um like everyone wants value and I think like the pivot into that was like the value is that I'm an example of what's possible but like that can be valuable but I'm not going to want to pay thousands of dollars to watch you become an example of how to make millions of dollars taking money from people who want to watch you make billions of dollars. Like I don't have a stake in you making millions of dollars. That doesn't really matter to me so much. Um and so once like the value for me as like a potential customer becomes about you and your goal, I'm like nah thanks. Yeah. Yeah. It's I don't think people like pay to be in somebody's orbit. No. No. I mean they yeah no they pay for they might pay for like the if they perceive a transformation that [clears throat] they're wanting that they think will come from being in somebody's orbit or like connection that they think will come from being in somebody's orbit maybe but not just to be there. Yeah. No one's gonna be like, I helped somebody make this much money by being their client and [laughter] $100,000 with them. It's like, I don't think that that's a I don't think that's a good sales pitch. Personally, I Yeah, I think it, you know, if I were to recreate that particular vision from a marketing standpoint, it would be about how many people had their lives totally changed because that vision I was on board with. Yeah, that 100%. And if the business had scaled with that at the center and you can do that, you could have like they could have done the math and just figured out okay, if I do want to achieve this money goal, that means x thousand of people. I think that would have looked very different. Yeah. I have a client whose um the business vision is to help someone every single day of the year through their through their program. And I'm like, that's amazing because there is a fiscal result of doing that. That's really great for the business, but it's also like it you're never more than one step away from thinking about your customer and planning for that person. And I'm like, I think that that's what more of us need. Like I think more coaches need to remember that this is not about the optics of how your business looks. It's not about it's not really about anything other than like can you help the person in front of you and can you articulate that well enough to get to a place where that person becomes your client? Like instill that. But yeah, if all of the attention is on the marketing and all the attention is on the sales and all of that stuff, it's not on the skill, that's where we get into this like whole scammy online marketing scheme that the rest of us who are really trying hard to put something good into the world now have to undo. And it makes me very mad. As it should. Yeah. I think um this is not there's so much more that I think we could talk about around this, but I will offer just based on what you just said. If you find yourself noticing some expectations that you're placing on yourself, this isn't again this isn't addressing like the root of the thing, but what would it be like particularly if you're a coach and you're working in the coaching world to create a loving expectation around like helping someone? [clears throat] I think that might be like enable a perspective shift that then might get your brain to stop punishing you and to focus a little bit more on stuff outside of you which then like again it's like skirting the selfrust self-love but it almost in a helpful way I think as somebody who fully skirted all of that for a long time I will also say that I think it does also come back around because if you say I feel full of expectations and I have a very harsh inner narrative today. And then my reaction to that is going to be going to my blog, to my podcast, to my social media, and just like talking about how I show up for people. Even when that's happening, someone relates to that. It's it's about them now. they take that, they relate to it. And now you've built a bridge of trust, which I actually think I can't speak for everybody, but for me, getting that feedback from other people about some of those more bare bones, like I'm a total mess just like everyone else I know, like the human stuff. It's made me trust that like maybe all of the fancy, slick, polished [ __ ] it's not [ __ ] for other people. I know other people live that way and that's amazing for them, but like for me it feels like [ __ ] That's not what I have to do. And like I feels like my work is to do in is to invite the raw with the people I'm working with and like let that let myself be present for them without being in my head. And people pay a lot of money for that because there's very few people who actually can do it. So just like for people who are like, "No one's buying coaching unless I have a hyper micro niche or like some and I'm consistent every day perfectly and like do things perfectly. It's you can get a lot further by being human, by letting yourself be human and by doing the work that we've been describing here today, the messy work of like being kind of punishing toward yourself and then realizing you're being kind of punishing toward yourself and then like sitting in that uncomfortable space for a minute and then like recalibrating a little bit like yeah, people turning whatever you did into a tool that could help other people so that people go, "Oh my god, I tried your thing and that actually really helped me when I was punishing myself. Like I don't think people realize that that your process is also your your genius because the way that you do that is exactly what your clients need. Yeah. It just happens to be the natural way you do it. Yeah. They don't need you to be perfect. No. And they don't need you like it the way that some other person told them to do it. Like Yeah. So if we to like kind of close out like if you were to talk to someone who was really in the early like high expectations for themselves maybe don't even realize their expectations and not just like some fundamental flaw that they should be trying to eradicate or like some goal that they should be able to live up to. What would you offer them?
What would you offer them? Um, I'm not even sure. How dare you turn my question back around to me. One bourbon in I think I would get a coach. That's what I say. Get a [laughter] coach. Yes. not tell you the plan like walk you through the and get a coach who can hold your humanity and like who who is human. Um and then I would also say like maybe start like bringing some context and understanding
as as much as you can from a place of like this makes sense, I make sense. getting curious about like why you make sense. So like why does it make sense that you've worked at exactly the pace that you have and let's assume that there's a good reason and this can be like a practice. It's not going to feel right [laughter] or true necessarily, but like cultivating the practice of relating to yourself as someone who makes sense and whose decisions had a good reason. even if it that reason is like maybe you didn't have the tools or the support or whatever just like starting to get curious cuz I think that that lens is what helps shake loose a little bit some of the rootedness of the expectations 100%. I mean, I think if I if I were to add anything to that, I think it would just be and make sure that person understands what your vision is so that they can be a mirror of that for you. because I do think sometimes there's coaches um and I I I don't actually know if I've ever worked with somebody like this, but I think a fear is if I work with someone who's going to like love me through all of my stuff, then I'm just going to become complacent. I'm not going to do anything. I've never had that happen to me. I've never seen that happen to one of my clients. But I think what does help is make sure you're working with somebody who can like help you articulate the vision and you make a deal with that person that they their job is to be on the same team as the big vision. Not on the same team as like 12 hours of Netflix. Like once in a while fine, but like help me make sense. Not just so that I can feel good about not taking care of my dreams or disrespecting what I've what I really want. Maybe the person can like help you actually feel the fear and do it. I know. Oh my gosh. What? But like in a thoughtful said it ladies and gentlemen in that context only. No. All context. You have now said it. It's going to be a neon behind me on the wall. I love that. I think and also now we're just going to be like building on each other. I love that. And also I really I advocate for finding a coach who is also able to like
create space for your humanity cuz I do see like there's a lot of surface level coaching that can happen when someone's like I'm going to make a million dollars in my business and the coach is like yes it is an inherent good to make a million dollars in our business and then let's talk about why you're scrolling for an hour every night instead of marketing like you said you would. Yeah. Like get someone who you can like go a little bit deeper around that stuff. Like it might feel a little scary, but like it ultimately you'll get a lot further if you're able to like dig into how to support yourself and how to be on your own side in this process, even if that's not necessarily even if it's deviating a little bit from your plan. Yeah. Talk to someone who you will actually be willing to tell the truth to, not like someone who's gonna be like, "Well, why would you choose to do that?" Like any of the self, well, that's a terrible thought. It's like, okay, you need to work with someone. How's that working out for you? How is that? I hate I hate that question. That's one of my least It's not really a question. It's a judgment disguised as a question. when someone, how am I supposed to use you in my marketing if you don't go make a million dollars? Chop chop. Yeah, that's I think that's where that question comes from to be totally mean and spicy. Mhm. I think it's partly that and partly like coaches who are uncomfortable with like going deeper with their clients and like afraid of the emotions that might come up if they do. And so they're like frustrated that the client isn't changing quickly enough. So, we're like, "Let me just like bludgeon you into doing that." Anyway, that's a Yeah, that's another episode. That's another Stay tuned, everybody. [laughter] How not to beat up your clients. That'll be the wine episode, perhaps. Yeah, I like it. We'll put it on the books. Thank you so much. Can you tell how to find you before we sign off? If if you know, tell me. I don't know. Where am I? What am I doing? Um, if you would like to find my website, it is coachingwithelena.com. That's el na. Also in the show notes. And how might people find you? Um, in the show notes besuperabound.com/consultation.
I'm actually doing consultations this fall because I have spaces for next year. So if you're looking for a coach, um, and I promised I would tell you my cards are done. The oracle card. was gonna ask. I I only have like the printouts right here, but like they're super fun. Um I'm really happy they're coming in the next week or two. So for anybody who's interested in having a intuitive oracle deck to help you with decisions for your business and your life, um you can find out more about that I think at besuperabound.com/oracle.
H I don't know. I'll put it in the show notes. Also in the show notes. It's in the show notes. I have no idea. There's a lot at the bottom of this. Genuinely, there's like no better person to get this done from. Like Erin's a genius in this area and many other areas, but like specifically this. Thank you. Thanks everybody. Thanks everybody.